CS Lewis, the Narnia guy, and Tolkien, the Hobbit guy, were both devout christians, Lewis and Anglican and JRR a Catholic. Lewis' books were overtly Christian; they were unabashed allegories of the Christian faith and experience and are meant to be read that way. Tolkien's work was influenced by his faith but were mainly great stories and not overtly Christian.

JKR is I believe a Presbyterian. In the past some Snitchers debated religion's influence on the books and Filchescat has always came down on the side of many mythologies influenced the HP Universe and Christianity is one. In fact I have always believed Arthurian tradition was the main influence of the work, and because Arthurian tradition was heavily infused with Christianity, it comes out there. BUTTTTT......

Now book 7 has come out and brace yourselves Snitchers, I know your gonna be stunned by this, so sit down... Filchescat was WRONG. I have now come to believe that Christianity is the overwhelmingly dominant mythology driving the HP world.

Self sacrificial love that is willing to die so others may live, (the love the Bible calls agape) is the force more powerful than any magic. This has been a theme since way back in book one, first expressed by Ron Weasley during the chess match when he risked his life for his friends by checking the Queen. "No greater love hath any man than this, that he would lay down his life for his friends." It cumulated in Harry willingly walking through the forest to face V.

1) It saves the world in HP

2) It is the key to the resurrection of the dead (allows Harry to come back)

3) It is most clearly expressed in the love of a mother for her child. (it was mother's love that protected HP at Godric's Hollow and empowered Molly to take down Belletrix)

It isn't that other mythologies don't influence Hp; rather, the Christian mythology trumps them all in significance. I might read the books thinking avadra kadavra. oh wow kinda like abracadabra, what a cool thing! Isn't it neat how this ancient Hebrew word for blessing influences HP, but it is completely eclipsed by Christianity in terms of plot significance and conflict resolution in the series.

Overall when I look at JKR I consider her not overtly Christian like CS Lewis, but her series is far more Christian influenced that Tolkien.

I am also amused at how stupid the lady in GA ought to feel. She's been leading all these boycotts against the HP series for promoting witchcraft and being anti-Christian when in fact the HP series, while not Christian litt, is more Christian than anything else.


purrs to all,

Filchescat

lol Filchescat

I know what you mean i think if you are a religious person or have any religious beliefs it will always reflect in your life and work.

I am not a christian but that doesnt mean i don't believe or appreciate anything it says many of the religious beliefs in Christianity are present in my religion. As every religion Christainty has amazing points like the self sacrafice of Jesus and all the moral stories written it teaches so much good to people.

I notice many things in the books that probably are influenced by religion - one being having faith in things you may not understand, putting yourself out to help people as you said self sacrafice.
But is that just a christian belief putting yourself in front and making sacrafices i mean Jesus made the sacrafice on the cross, But Muhammed (p.b.u.h) he was stoned and beaten for preaching and warning people and many of his closest family were slaughtered, and Moses he had to inflict the plague and face it he was riduculed and beaten in short they all faced something terrible in hope of helping others. so i would say religion influnces the books perhaps but its not just Christianity. - prehaps because all religions in some way are preaching the same to love each other and help each other.

But i think the book is mostly about having good morals its a very good moral book, it tackles problems in the world and shows a way to over come them in a morally correct way
1. Racism
2. class (amount of money)
3. Intelligence
4. death
5. facing problems
The list goes on.

Though i think religion has had a profound influence on the book i think its in a way that everyone can relate to it whether they are atheist, Christian, Buddist, Muslim, Jewish i think in this book it really doesnt matter who the reader is because theres something in there for everyone to relate and what everyone has to face.

But i think the great thing about JKR is she doesnt as you said make it overly Christian, thats the problems i have sometimes when reading old classic books like Pride and pred, Jane Eyre, Mansfielf park etc. , because when they quote from the bible it doesnt impact me so much and i wont have the understanding that a Christian would have. But JKR puts it in, in a way that everyone can understand.

I agree Laura Mallory i think it is, is wrong to say the books are about witchcraft and wicca or whatever many of the soul beliefs are from her own religion and teach us to be good that love conquers all! lol

I never really thought that there was any religion theme going on in Harry Potter. You never seen them all going to mass every Sunday and Hogwarts would probably be a place of mixed faiths But I always thought that JKR tried to stay away from the whole aspect of religion to avoid controversy and the like - not that Harry and his friends are all pagans but just to avoid controversy. It would have been much easier to leave religion out of the books as I probably would have done as well

In saying that there is no religion present throughout the books, JKR did include two biblical quotes in DH:

"Where your treasure is, there your heart shall be also." and

"The Last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."

So maybe Im wrong to say that there is no religious theme present in the books Who knows?

those are biblical quotes??? is that a - what do you call that? - passage, verse? which part? i mean, specifically?

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15.26)

and...

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Matthew 6:21)

I say that they're based on love, not religion.

this is not meant to sound like religion-bashing, but often times when books, movies, people, etc. perform parallel to the beliefs of certain religions. most of those beliefs are in religion because people regard them as the best morals and values. In other words, sacrificing yourself for the good of others is not necesarilly religious. Most people, religious or not, will claim that is the right thing to do, so I find it interesting that when these situations arise in fictitious forms, people automatically jump to religion.

JK Rowling had a very difficult life, like many people all over the world. When you don't know where you're gonna live or where you're going to get the next piece of bread for your kid, that makes you think of many things including God. I think JK Rowling has an astronomical mind, and that she would not only incorporate her gift of putting her visions into words, but also life, religion, beliefs and anything else she can find. It is why she's such an excellent writer and her books such success.

I agree that religions influence fiction a lot (and HP too) but what I want to say is that, as BJB said, the themes of love and sacrifice and others are not just Cristian. All religions tell about the power of love.
And I think it's one of the reasons why HP books are so popular all over the world, they appeal to believers of different religions: Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Induists, Jewish...

Very provocative topic Filchescat! I don't mean to be a stinky poo, but I was wondering if you had any trouble posting this topic because I had one about wizards and Christmas and it was at tribal council (*sarcasm here* Survivor the Tv show reference) for quite some time. Nevertheless I understand the need to make sure that discussions are respectful, I was just wondering if you had difficulty posting your topic as well.

On to the subject! I think the Christian themes in this book are very apparent. The sacrifice of a life to save everyone, King's Cross seems like a purgatory of sorts, and I agree with the love of the mother. I also feel like a lot of the themes particularly around good and evil and what makes people good and evil, redemption, forgiveness, and so forth are themes that probably could apply to almost any religion or faith. I agree that she isn't as overt as CS Lewis, but you can definitely make the argument that her spiritual beliefs are infused into the story.

I think it took about 5 hours before it showed up.

One time back when F.C. was "stirring it up" all the time, I started a thread just to bash members of the Weasley family and it was taken down after about 2 posts... Filchey was informed that we shouldn't have threads just to bash characters but right below her thread, there was another one called the "Umbridge Hate Club."

I don't blame the mods...they have to make judgement calls all the time...although in the above case they shouldn't have invented a rule; they probably should have simply said, "Filchey, quit being a nutter."

purrs to all

FC

Hahah! I appreciate the comforting words FC, glad to see there is another rebel rouser here Yeah I don't blame them either, I'm sure it's hard being consitent particularly in a very subjective position.

I also notice some undertones of religious themes. Obviously Harry having to sacrifice his life to save others and then his resurection, thats very Christ like. Also Dumbledore played a sort of John the Baptist role, preparing the way for Harry. Im trying to choose my words carefully, trying not to offend anyone, but religion, specifically Christianity is evident throughout the book.

*Slaps fc with a fish* I think that was before I was in charge. There was a very strict "No Religion" rule at the Snitch. We have discussed and have decided to relax the rule. We are hoping to relax many of the 'set in stone' rules to free up discussions. We still need to remain PG-13, but we're going to trust our members to behave around touchy subjects. Cheers! As long as people remain respectful, all should be okay.

I do agree that there are religious themes. I think it's mainly because Britain is a broadly Christian country. As Wizarding culture mirrors Muggle culture, one would expect it to be broadly Christian as well.

All of you have been discussing influence of religion in HP volumes. But have you ever thought that which characters were other than Christians in the whole series? I think just the Patil twins, who were Hindus. Never put a thought on the others.Any guesses? just a discussion, nothing to offend anyone.

Correct Ashish and also, I believe Anthony Goldstein might be Jewish...

Very right you are dear. Any other guesses? I am still waiting for others. Hindu is there and so is Jew. No other religion I think. LV definitely Christian.

Why no other religion, Ashu? I think wizards are people of all world's religions, even in Britain live not only Christians but also Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists. So I think there can be students of all religions in Hogwarts too, and why Jo doesn't mention this? because religion is not the thing students discuss with each other.

And I'd rather say LV is an ateist than a Christian, he hadn't ever shown any sign that he believed in God.

I think I would agree that LV was probably Atheist in his views. I think in some ways HE wanted to believe himself as God.

To be honest, I don't think it is important in the HP novels to know everyone's religion. Nat's right - that's not what the books are about. Besides, in the Magical world, I'm not sure how many people would actively "practice" their religion. I mean, do the Weasleys go to church? It's never been a question I thought to ask I suppose. Preblodd wizarding families I don't think would've practiced, but muggle-borns probably would as they've spent the first 11 years in our world.

Wasn't there a passage in the book that talks about The Weasleys going to Church or someone in that manner? I'm not sure but for some reason, it is fresh on my mind that there was talk about going to Church ~ I think during the trios stay at Bill and Fleur's home (the cottage). The last time I read the book and the first time was last July and it's a bit foggy right now, but I do remember something geared towards that conversation in the book. Either that or at Bill and Fleur's Wedding.

But back to the topic, I think the book gears to everyone of all religions. All religions speak of love, peace and self sacrifice. Pope John Paul loved The Harry Potter Series before he passed on, The Catholic Bishops Association approved of them and even my own Parish Priest could be caught talking about Harry Potter in one or more of our Homilies at Church. Not because of the christian beliefs but just because of the morals that we learn in the books. There are so many wonderful things to read about in Harry Potter. Love, Friendship, Loyalty, Sacrifice, Good conquering Evil, etc.

It wouldn't be fair just to say it is all Christian based as many ethinic groups and religions strive for the same things.

I think what the Harry Potter Books do for everyone is that it brings all of us on a common ground for understanding one another. And JK Rowling has that powerful vision of making it happen through her words. I only hope to find more writers like that in our world. I've read so many books in between, before and after Harry Potter and no one has matched that rare talent that JK Rowling brings to the world. She is one in a million that touches up topics that many would be afraid to. But, she is brave and she is honest.

I love Harry Potter. I don't care what others think if I'm reading something about Witches and Wizards. It's all in fun and it is just props and settings that these wonderful stories were created in. I hope those who don't understand will give Harry Potter a chance. Or for any book really.

I'm strong in my faith and beliefs but man, I am one open minded person. I'll read and learn before I disagree and I wish people would give things a chance before saying no.



Hope all is well.

Loves,
Briseis09 (Arlene)

Arlene, I agree with you so much!

Indeed most of those who hate HP books and say they are bad didn't even try to read them and undersatnd what they are about. They do not "give them a chance" as you've said.
So, let's hope people will become more and more open minded

I always knew there was religion in the HP books, but so much makes me sad! But I guess it depends on your beliefs.

In the end, though, the HP books are still amazing. Christian or not.

-------

Also, after reading this..."I agree Laura Mallory i think it is, is wrong to say the books are about witchcraft and wicca or whatever many of the soul beliefs are from her own religion and teach us to be good that love conquers all! lol."

I Googled Laura Mallory and I thought this might be relevant.

"They're really very long and I have four kids. I've put a lot of work into what I've studied and read. I think it would be hypocritical for me to read all the books, honestly." -Laura Mallory

Well, I think if you really are a very religious person you can interpret your beliefs in everything you see, read, do and whatever. I know this from my German teacher. He's a total fan of Romaticism and he said there were so many romantic motives and such stuff. And he said that Harry Potter and the Chmaber of Secrets is through and through romantic! Excuse me??? So you see, if you are so sort os obsessed with something (I have NOTHING against Christians!!!!! I don't want anybody to feel offended) you can interpret into pretty much anything. I don't believe in religious motives. Those sentences, whereever they come from, felt just strong enough for what they were supposed get across to the readers that J.K. Rowling simply used them - just because they're strong.