The Unforgivable Curses, Why wasn't Moody arrested? Options

[Larauder]

Hey

I have a question concerning Mad-Eye Moody (or rather Barty Crouch Jr) in GoF. In his first Defence Against the Dark Arts lesson with the fourth years, Moody introduced the three Unforgivable Curses to the students. I remember him telling them that "the use of any one of them will land you straight in a cell in Azkaban". Then he used the Imperius Curse on various students. Now if the use of any one of the curses will land you straight in Azkaban Prison, why wasn't Moody immediately arrested?

That's something I absolutely don't understand. Any thoughts?

[one more second]

He was teaching. Students would never learn what those curses are or what they do otherwise, unless they were attacked with one or became a Death Eater. I guess they could find out from their parents, but it's still part of academia. (Think muggle-wise: Parents teach their kids that drugs and alcohol are bad, but that doesn't mean the school won't have programs like D.A.R.E. to reinforce those teachings.) It's just like Underage Wizardry: Kids under 17 performing magic get their wands snapped in half; except when they're learning what to do with them in school.

[Larauder]

Yes but how could the Ministry have known that? Hermione said it was irresponsible of Moody to actually use the curse which means that DADA teachers normally don't demonstrate the Unforgivable Curses because they are unforgivable and can cause severe damage. So Moody would have had to contact the Ministry, get permission to perform the Imperius Curse and so on. But would the Ministry have given permission? We're talking about cursing kids. Would you have given Moody the permission to use such a curse simply for teaching matters?

[Frater Albus]

I think this is something that's cropped up in discussion before... Why can't the Ministry trace exactly when/where an unforgivable curse has been cast and act upon it immediately? They could tell when magic had been cast in the Dursleys house! Though we know it was Dobby and not Harry that did it, the Ministry still knew the exact time and place. Surely if they had such a system in place for the Unforgivables they could round up the Deatheaters a lot quicker or at least get a better idea of what they're up to?

DADA teachers normally don't demonstrate the Unforgivable Curses because they are unforgivable and can cause severe damage

Maybe that's down to the fact that most normal Wizards can't actually demonstrate the Unforgivables - remember what Bellatrix (at least I think it was Bellatrix) said to Harry at the battle in the Ministry... you have to *really* want to inflict pain to make them work. Most Wizards wouldn't have it in them to cast such spells.

[Larauder]

They could tell when magic had been cast in the Dursleys house! Though we know it was Dobby and not Harry that did it, the Ministry still knew the exact time and place.

Yes but we're talking about Unforgivable Curses here - not some silly Underage Magic. You'd think the Ministry would pay a bit more attention to people going around using such terrible curses on kids.

Maybe that's down to the fact that most normal Wizards can't actually demonstrate the Unforgivables - remember what Bellatrix (at least I think it was Bellatrix) said to Harry at the battle in the Ministry... you have to *really* want to inflict pain to make them work. Most Wizards wouldn't have it in them to cast such spells.

Hmm... good point. But then someone should have become suspicious. Why did Moody have it in him? If only truly dark and evil people are able to cast such spells then why didn't McGonagall or someone else who can put two and two together keep an eye on Crouch aka Moody?

[one more second]

Yes but how could the Ministry have known that? Hermione said it was irresponsible of Moody to actually use the curse which means that DADA teachers normally don't demonstrate the Unforgivable Curses because they are unforgivable and can cause severe damage. So Moody would have had to contact the Ministry, get permission to perform the Imperius Curse and so on. But would the Ministry have given permission? We're talking about cursing kids. Would you have given Moody the permission to use such a curse simply for teaching matters?

Hermione had never been a fourth year DADA student before that class. It is possible that she doesn't know the exact cirriculum of every class. Despite popular belief, Hermione does not know everything. She's still just a fourteen year old kid, in school to learn, just like everybody else. Look how unpredictable Lupin's DADA class was. They all said things like, "Hey, we've never done _____ in DADA class before!" The whole point is to learn what's out there, not just the fluffy stuff.

Why can't the Ministry trace exactly when/where an unforgivable curse has been cast and act upon it immediately? They could tell when magic had been cast in the Dursleys house! Though we know it was Dobby and not Harry that did it, the Ministry still knew the exact time and place. Surely if they had such a system in place for the Unforgivables they could round up the Deatheaters a lot quicker or at least get a better idea of what they're up to?

I think it would be completely chaotic. Look at how much stuff they have to deal with already. They don't have the resources to keep tabs on who's using what spell. It would be like telling the American government to keep tabs on everyone who buys new kitchen knives.

Yes but we're talking about Unforgivable Curses here - not some silly Underage Magic. You'd think the Ministry would pay a bit more attention to people going around using such terrible curses on kids.

The silliness isn't that it's underage magic, it's that the wizarding world could be exposed to muggles, which Jo has already addressed. Can you imagine the damage that could be done by kids playing with limited magical knowledge? Would you go to France after taking one semester of French 101?

Again, the kids are there to learn. Dumbledore hired Moody, knowing he was an unconventional guy. He was an Auror; he had really been out there and exposed to the powers of Dark Magic. Given that Dumbledore knew what lay ahead in terms of Voldemort returing to power, I'm sure he wouldn't have questioned Moody's motives for wanting the kids to be prepared. Granted, the Moody was an imposter, BUT he played the part well. I guess we'll never know for sure, but who's to say the real Moody wouldn't have done the same thing?

Hmm... good point. But then someone should have become suspicious. Why did Moody have it in him? If only truly dark and evil people are able to cast such spells then why didn't McGonagall or someone else who can put two and two together keep an eye on Crouch aka Moody?

He was an Auror. You have to be powerful in order to beat a powerful wizard. In his feild, he was exposed to these spells. He had to anticipate and counter them, otherwise he would have died. Countering an Unforgiveable must be just as difficult, if not more so, as performing the actual Unforgiveable.

[Frater Albus]

Yes but we're talking about Unforgivable Curses here - not some silly Underage Magic. You'd think the Ministry would pay a bit more attention to people going around using such terrible curses on kids.

Yes indeed, that was entirely my point. You'd think the Ministry would have a system of monitoring the use of the unforgivable spells.

I think it would be completely chaotic. Look at how much stuff they have to deal with already. They don't have the resources to keep tabs on who's using what spell. It would be like telling the American government to keep tabs on everyone who buys new kitchen knives.

Umm, the difference being that, unlike the number of the people in the US who buy kitchen knives, only a tiny amount of the Wizarding population would actually use the unforgivable spells.... generally one infamous organisation! If it was possible to keep track of where/when the unforgivables were cast it could actually cut their work load by making it easier to track them!

[one more second]

My point being that out of all the spells used daily, they'd have to single out the Unforgivables. I don't see how they could do it logically, unless they censored the air to pick up the specific words used in the curses. But I think they would almost have to keep a log to achieve an appropriate system. Look at Sectumsempra: it's not technically Unforgivable, but it would certainly be worthy of notice and punishment under Ministry regulation.

(The same with the knives: I was trying to say you can buy the knives without the retailer knowing what you're going to use them for, which is very very loosely applied to this situation.)

[Aoi]

Also, even if the Ministry would have kept track of unforgivable curses, pehaps they would'nt have been able to notice Moody's due to the billions of security spells at Hogwarts? Well, I have no idea of what spells Dumbledore had used.

[Lost]

Moody was a teacher so he would be allowed to do it in a controlled situation. I think his only "crime" would have been showing the curses to the younger students & not just the older ones.

But speaking of illegal actions - why wasn't Umbridge arrested for sending dementors after Harry in OOTP??

[one more second]

Pretty sure she did it anonymously, and besides, she was high up in a Ministry that was already set against Harry and his claims. Not that they wouldn't care that she did it, but I feel like it was one of those corrupt political situations, anyway.

[LilyEvans1294]

he was given the dementors kiss