46 replies to this topic

[Merlin321]

Well as I said before...it comes down to the next book...whatever your opinion is on the subject is your opinion, whichever way you interpret it is fine with me. I just posted what I thought might be a connection to DDs death.

(Yet again..Hello everyone.. )

[Smooth Sunday]

I realise I am coming into this fresh, but there seems to be a lot of focus on the last book (which I can understand - esp. given the Forum topic), but this thing is bigger than that.

JKR is pretty consistent througout her books with her characters and I think we need to look at the past books to see what the next book might hold. It would seem to me that Snape is just one of those guys that has had a tough upbringing. He didn't like James and he has to pretend to be a DE. It explains his affection for Draco (thanks to 'Dad') and explains his general demeanor, esp. to Harry.

BUT - he has helped Harry heaps. Just thinking back to the first book, Snape saved his life! What was that for if he *truly* hated him? Then, in many classes and interactions, he is helping Harry, albeit in a fairly confronting manner.

I think JKR has nicely thrown people off the scent. DD and Snape have a plan to take down LV. They have had it for a long time and it is getting close to fruition.

Eagerly awaiting the final chapter...

SS

[Romulus]

What if Snape concocted the potion in the basin where DD found the locket? What if he and RAB were partners? What if SS made the potion and RAB planted it and died before revealing the location? That's why DD knew he needed Harry, SS told him the effects of the potion, and it was a potion he invented --Snape hates himself in the scene where he AK's DD. Maybe I'm way off, or half right!

Huh? Huh?

[melf]

IF snape is evil ... then why not

A totally stun potter
B make potter float in the air
C pull potter's body like 20 feet
D aparate away WITH potter
E deliver potter to VD himself ?


or ... just kill him himself in his seething rage ?

[elfbwillow]

I wish I had time to debate this further tonight than I can as this is probably one of the biggest debates of HP (and the best!) but I will be sure to come back to it!

As a lot of people who know me know, I am totally trusting of Snape. I agree with so many points brought up in this thread about his innocence and believe he will be redeemed (probably die, but redeemed first)

There are so many points in HBP that practically prove he is on Dumbledore's side, a lot have been mentioned in this thread already so I wont retrace the steps, though I will come back with more later (too tired tonight lol)

[ashish]

One of the weapons of DD was occlumency.When HP could read Snape's mind, DD could also do it. It simply goes this way that Snape was born at the end of July. HP or Neville are too imature to kill Voldy but Snape can. Defence against the dark arts is a subject where Potter excell. But defence can save him and not kill Voldy. It would need Dark arts to kill Voldy and not simply defence. So it is clear that it would be Snape who shall kill Voldy and not Potter or Longbottom

[aliyah]

One of the weapons of DD was occlumency.When HP could read Snape's mind, DD could also do it. It simply goes this way that Snape was born at the end of July. HP or Neville are too imature to kill Voldy but Snape can. Defence against the dark arts is a subject where Potter excell. But defence can save him and not kill Voldy. It would need Dark arts to kill Voldy and not simply defence. So it is clear that it would be Snape who shall kill Voldy and not Potter or Longbottom

snape can NOT kill voldermort.he has already chosen harry to be his opponant.

[Merlin321]

Umm ashish...that made really no sense.....no offense.......but considering Dumberdore thoroughly explained it that Harry was chosen to kill or be killed by Voldy, your theory is therefore incorrect.....and please stay with us lol.

[SJF91]

[quote name='Keri' date='Mar 29 2006, 11:17 PM' post='185980']
This whole topic confuses me. I start siding with Snape, that he's innocent. But then I re-read the end, and the way Snape acts, really makes me think that he really hated Dumbledore & Harry and wanted both dead. My fists always clench when he kills DD and hurts Harry. I don't understand why when Harry is chasing him at the end, he has so much hate, if he was on their side. OK, Harry's father was mean to him about 20 years ago. Maybe the "hate" was a cover, at the end, when Harry is chasing Snape out of the school, but who would have seen him other than Malfoy? (And Malfoy didn't complete his task of killing DD, Snape had to, so Voldy won't be too happy anyway). Well, I guess we'll have to wait. Probably two or three years.

JK has so much power in her hands!
**************************


***Listen to this....it seems like a few words in the book but in might just mean something. In my book (the American children's version) in chapter 2, when Snape is making the Unbreakable Vow, Narcissa Malfoy asks a series of questions during it . EG "Do you vow to protect my son from harms way?" (i dont know the exact wording...but i do remember this.) Her last question was for Snape to swear that if Draco were proven to be unsuccessful, he will carry out the deed. It says in the book that Snape made a little twitch with his hand while holding hers, but he did not draw it back. Could that twitch reveal Snape's true loyalty? Please Reply!

[nikcolarius]

SJF91--I do believe that that twitch was another small hint as to snape's loyalty.

But of course, I've always thought Snape is good. I think you can twist j.k's words into making you see what you want to see. Those who are convinced of his guilt can see him as guilty, while those who are convinced of his innocence can see him as innocent.

I still say that one of the most telling moments in the whole series for snape was when hagrid confessed that snape told DD that he didn't want to do it anymore. That he looked overworked.

I really think that that hatred Snape had when he killed DD was because he was doing the one thing he didn't want to do, and he hated himself for it.

I think that's also why Harry struck a cord with him when he called him a coward. Because what he did was strictly under orders, and was far from cowardly. I don't think that he knew what he was agreeing to by making that Unbreakable Vow. But that he had an idea of what it might have meant, which is why he twitched.

[Sirius R.I.P.]

I reckon that Snape is innocent. When Dumbledore was saying 'Please, Severus', i reckon he was pleading for death to make sure that Snape's cover is not blown (or whatever other reason) and the reason behind why Dumbledore flew in the air or glowed bright green or whatever was that there was so much emotion in the spell because Snape did not want to do it but he knew that he must.

And lots of other things he says, like when shouting at Harry about blocking his mind, was him trying to help the 'good side' without being obvious.

[jenjen]

I believe Snape was doing what he was told to do. We seem to forget that Dumbledore's hand was not really healing and I believe there was no cure to the potion he drank. He knew this and told Snape that when the time came to kill him so he would not suffer a painful death. Plus it would serve the purpose of making the Death Eaters believe Snape is on their side. Also, I think Dumbledore knew what was going to happen that night, that is why he chose that night to leave and take Harry with him. He knew if Harry was gone that he would not be able to stop Draco. Remember, we have been told that we will find something important out about Lily, Harry's mom in this last book. I'm betting it involves Snape in some way and this will be come clear. We will just have to wait and see.

[Misya]

Dumbledore was a mystery wizard..Numbers of time he seemed to know what would happen in the future. However, I do not think he knew what will happen the night he take Harry to the cave at Hogwarts. He seemed shocked to found out the Dark mark on the Astronomy tower. And I think it's really a mistake he stunned Harry, my opinion of course. But I think it was part of the plan.

I'm the believer of the DD's death plan theory. Yes, I think DD is pleading for his death. and Snape obeyed him.

[jenjen]

Dumbledore was a mystery wizard..Numbers of time he seemed to know what would happen in the future. However, I do not think he knew what will happen the night he take Harry to the cave at Hogwarts. He seemed shocked to found out the Dark mark on the Astronomy tower. And I think it's really a mistake he stunned Harry, my opinion of course. But I think it was part of the plan.

I'm the believer of the DD's death plan theory. Yes, I think DD is pleading for his death. and Snape obeyed him.

I can agree with DD not knowing the Death Eaters would be there that night but I do think he knew that whatever Draco was up to would be that night.

As for DD's death plan theroy, I'm glad someone else thinks it's possible.

[shruthi]

hey the theories are very nice..i accept that snape can be innocent.......
but i dont accept two things in it... one is that dumbeldore can read snape's mind being good at legilimency..this is not possible as snape is very good at occlumency,he can hide his mind from anyone even dumbeldore...
and the other one is that snape will die not because he broke the unbreakable vow as he did not... he kept his word but doing it if draco failed........................
i believe that voldemort may b angry with snape for disobeying him and draco for not doing the job he was given.......

[Bri_x]

hey the theories are very nice..i accept that snape can be innocent.......
but i dont accept two things in it... one is that dumbeldore can read snape's mind being good at legilimency..this is not possible as snape is very good at occlumency,he can hide his mind from anyone even dumbeldore...
and the other one is that snape will die not because he broke the unbreakable vow as he did not... he kept his word but doing it if draco failed........................
i believe that voldemort may b angry with snape for disobeying him and draco for not doing the job he was given.......

I agree with you! However, i think that since Snape is so skilled at Occlumency, he and Dumledore have been plotting his death for awhile to show that snape is on voldemort's side. In the last book, i have a theory that somehow Harry's mom (Lily) has a connection with Snape.

In the 5th book, the part where Harry breaks into Snape's pensieve, theres a small hint that shows Lily is trying to defend Snape but then quickly rejects her help. Also, i have never once heard Snape bash Harry's mom. Just his dad... possible connection there?

[one more second]

In the 5th book, the part where Harry breaks into Snape's pensieve, theres a small hint that shows Lily is trying to defend Snape but then quickly rejects her help. Also, i have never once heard Snape bash Harry's mom. Just his dad... possible connection there?

He called her mudblood. I think it's possible that maybe Snape had a secret thing for Lily. However, I don't believe it was mutual. Lily just didn't like James and his friends picking on the weird kid.