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Theory of a great secret! was it all planned?


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#61
Feather_of_the_Phenoix

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We dont know that it is PT, but I think that it is higly doubful that it is. Because we know that the PT curse causes one to freeze up and fall on the floor. Dumbledore would of known this and as a result would of used another 'petrify' curse other than PT. Because if Dumbledore had used PT, and Harry had fallen on the floor, I think it is obvious that Malfoy would of noticed something as heavy as Harry fallen on the floor behind him, even if Harry were invisible.
"And now, Harry let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure"

"Harry was left to ponder in silence the depths to which girls would sink to get revenge."

"Greatness inspires envy, envy engenders spite, spite spawns lies."

"Women they are easily upset" - Ron

#62
Joy

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Dumbledore was my favorite caracter and I was really sad when he died. I believe he is dead and Snape is the killer, though I hope there is some hidden topic that undoes it.
But I do not think his portrait would turn up in the office if he wasnt realy dead and McGonagal would not be able to get into the office if she wasnt the new headmistress. Remember that last time the office sealed it self.
Though I think your theories are great I do not think they work. Just hopes u know, u never wanna believe something like this.
Anyway i like this theory that someone wrote here:
"On Dumbledore's wordless charms...

Page 584 from HBP: "Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood.... Dumbledore had wordlessly immoblized Harry, and the second he had taken to perform the spell had cost him the chance of defending himself."

This statement shows that Dumbledore was prepared to use a non-verbal charm to protect Harry. It also says that he gave up this opportunity to defend himself. Dumbledore at this point may have known that he would not have to actually defend himself, if this entire plan was predetermined. All he cared about was that Harry was immoblilized so that he could be the silent witness.

"He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine."

When Dumbledore is talking to Malfoy about coming over to the good side he also gives hints that he can fake death.

These quotes can help support the theory that Dumbledore is still alive; the theory we'd all love to believe."

It really gives you secont thought so mabie hes not dead. I find it strange that Dumbledore that has bean so carefull with Harry and allways had his best at heart should leave him now in the hardest time ever, when Harry really need him. He must have left something. I mean after all he is/was one of the greatest wizards ever.

#63
Roderick

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It really gives you secont thought so mabie hes not dead. I find it strange that Dumbledore that has bean so carefull with Harry and allways had his best at heart should leave him now in the hardest time ever, when Harry really need him. He must have left something. I mean after all he is/was one of the greatest wizards ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


^I`ll persist(sp) in the fact that its shocking that the greatest wizard of our time was cornered by a 16 year old idiot! . . .and DD knew that Draco was planning it! . . .it's just impossible Draco had such a good plan. :hmm: . . .

I  think it is obvious that Malfoy would of noticed something as heavy as Harry fallen on the floor behind him, even if Harry were invisible.



^I think that it depends on the amount of shriekening screams of the people that are being attacked. Also the wind, etc. . . so many facts that it would have been possible that no one notice Harry falling. Also Draco was too busy with his stupid semi-plan that he wouldn't have notice anything else . . .
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#64
>Xenon

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But I do not think his portrait would turn up in the office if he wasnt realy dead and McGonagal would not be able to get into the office if she wasnt the new headmistress. Remember that last time the office sealed it self.



Like I said in a previous reply, perhaps in the case of Umbridge, the school didn't accept her as a true head of the school. And everyone knew that she wasn't officially the head because Dumbledore still took that position

BUT, because DD is now not headmaster (though that doesn't mean he's dead), McGonagal is able to take over from him as a new head.

So. To conclude:

McGonagall was able to assume the post of Headmistress because Dumbledore is not headmaster anymore...we don't know enough about how the portraits work to say because of them he must be dead. I'm sure it has been mentioned before that the portraits were of 'headmasters and mistresses past' We don't know for sure if they are all dead. JK has never gone into that much detail about them. :rolleyes:

#65
willbo

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Roderick> with regards to my last post - what i said was all in context to what others had said. you saw it on its own, hence started ripping it to pieces.

"^I don't have my book with me right now but I'm pretty sure it was a Petrificus Totalus . . .and if it wasn't it must have been a freezing charm, and that obviously would ran off faster . . ."

I was explaining about when someoen else said that it couldnt have been petificus totalus. You say youre sure it was this charm but how can you be so sure? The only effects that were the same were the fact that harry couldnt move. There wasnt any of the legs and arms snapping together or anything. Fair enough you say we dont know the conditions so perhaps draco may not have heard (still unlikely though that the wind was so loud that you couldnt hear a loud thud from a few feet away from him). However, jkr would have said exactly what had happened (this is speculation so dont take it as canon...like you tend to do with any of my speculation :P)

"^Ok . . .Hermione used something like a contract . . .nothing to do with the UV . . . also we don't know anything more about it, it may "Know" and it may not . . ."

you said that. what i said was an example. I wasnt saying that hermione did anything like the vow.

"^Who the flip said that the scene took 2 minutes? It took a lot longer, in terms of real life I would say . . .half an hour . . .it must have wore off after 30 min. and if you're going to say that DD is strong enough to make a 24 hour petrification, I'll answer saying that he was weak, and in terms of speculation, he could have decided how long the spell would do effect."

Again, read what i said. it was speculation and sort of example. you have taken part of what i said out of its context. "...ALOT more than about 2 minutes (or however long you imagined the scene)." The brackets clearly show that i wasnt saying the scene did last 2 minutes. It was just a random number pulled off the top of my head. But, you cant imagine it taking half an hour?!?! If it takes you 5 minutes to read the dialogue (and all other text with it e.g. "said draco" or "dumbledore said" etc), in real life it would take less. Im not a fast reader but i read all of that part in about 5minutes or so. This is including all of the extra descriptions and occurences. Described facial expressions would be happening whilst the dialogue is said so wouldnt really add to any of the time it takes to happen. All in all, that scene would only have taken about 5 mins if it actually happened! Dumbledore may have been weak but you're forgetting how powerful he is. a weak dumbledore would still be more powerful than hermione if he had his wand!! Again though, we dont know for sure whether you can decide how long the spell lasts for. however, from previous occurences of similar things (neville in ps from hermione) it has lasted at least about an hour (or more) and remember hermione was only a first year so not powerful!!!

"Petrificus is to Petrificate as Ice Cream is to Ice . . . that's all I'm going to sa"

Re-read cos if you dont believe me on what petrify is :P the basilisk petrifies people. read what happens to petrified people :P

anyway, remember, what i put all has a context so when quoting it and trying to rip it apart (which i dont mind happening:)) take into account the context in which it was put and dont slate parallels or examples that i use - im not putting them in so to say "this happened here so its canon with everything else". they are just there to give something to think about and shows a possibility that most magic may well have similar effects - if hermiones charm work with the da can "know" when its been broken, the possibility that the vow can "know" also, shouldnt be frowned upon. :D
"What will come, will come and we will face it when it does." - Hagrid
"We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided." - Dumbledore
"In times of difficulty we must make the choice between what is right and what is easy." - Dumbledore

"Nothing worth having comes easy" - me

#66
Roderick

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^Ok, I'm pretty sure the Petrificus Totalus petrifies people, but not in a highly semi-permenent way, like the basilisk . . .

^I think you cleared some of my questions, but still I don't think you completely disaprove my theory (which I know is not necesarely your purpose) . . .

^I'm indeed a fast reader, and it took me like 2 or 3 minutes to read that . . .but that was on a rush, if you re-read calmly it would take you like 10min or so, and in the real life it would be a lot longer

:D
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#67
willbo

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in gof harry uses the stupefy hex on krum. this does a similar thing to the petrificus totalus hex but without the arms and legs snapping together. perhaps it was this that dumbledore used? there are definitely alternatives to what dumbledore could have used. again though, we dont know anything about the length of time it works. just a bit more info on this topic though.
"What will come, will come and we will face it when it does." - Hagrid
"We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided." - Dumbledore
"In times of difficulty we must make the choice between what is right and what is easy." - Dumbledore

"Nothing worth having comes easy" - me

#68
Propaganda

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What losers those adults must be...JK will write it however she wants, it's not like they're real people, they don't have to go by all of the things they've, everything is chosen by Rowling...so there's no way to even guess if he's alive or not, because Rowling decides that and she obviously hasn't realeased book 7.


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#69
ScoobieDew

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For the record I think Snape and DD were acting and I don't think DD was the one who froze Harry, but my thoughts on that are elsewhere. I wanted to touch upon another aspect of it...something that Willbo said...

how do you explain then the spells lifting once dumbledore had been killed? just another "counter-curse" (like that one? smile.gif) against the theory.


Do the spells really lift once a person dies?? If so what about the Healers? They treat their patients magically. If you get treated at St. Mungo's, I would assume that you wouldn't automatically become ill again once your Healer dies. Therefore, I think it's too premature to say that DD's dead just because the spell was lifted.

Alright, now you guys can go back to your squabble and I'll watch like Peeves. LOL! ^_^ Oh and Hay, Propaganda! I'm in VA too so we're neighbors! :P
<center> <img src=http://img59.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ScoobieDew/scoobypage.gif>

W.I.T.T.Y. Wild Imaginative Thoughts of Theoretical Youth

#70
Roderick

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Do the spells really lift once a person dies??  If so what about the Healers?  They treat their patients magically.  If you get treated at St. Mungo's, I would assume that you wouldn't automatically become ill again once your Healer dies.  Therefore, I think it's too premature to say that DD's dead just because the spell was lifted. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


^I think it depends on the spell, a little stupid spell like petrificus totalus, or stupefy may wear off after a while, but a strong spell in which someone's health depends won't wore off that easy . . .I still think it depends on the person who made the spell, but it has to be an expert to be able to change the time of the spell . . .

What losers those adults must be...JK will write it however she wants, it's not like they're real people, they don't have to go by all of the things they've, everything is chosen by Rowling...so there's no way to even guess if he's alive or not, because Rowling decides that and she obviously hasn't realeased book 7.


^Ok, didn't understand the first part . . .but the rest . . . That's why its called speculation, you never know if its going to be right, but you can support your theory with facts :crying: ^_^ :P

!!!
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#71
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i do believe that dumbledow will come bac to life in the last battle between voldi n harry. i believe this because harry is i nice boy and may need a lil bit of help in the final battle, then harry and dumble door can marry and have eight children.

#72
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^ Um. What can I say about that post above? Its barely understandable and silly. :P [Passing over Fred's left buttock!] *ahem*




Do the spells really lift once a person dies?? If so what about the Healers? They treat their patients magically. If you get treated at St. Mungo's, I would assume that you wouldn't automatically become ill again once your Healer dies. Therefore, I think it's too premature to say that DD's dead just because the spell was lifted.


Thats a really good point! Though mostly Healers use potion pre-prepared I think. As you usually see them applying some ointment before they 'prod the wound' with their wands and they heal over.

For instance, when Madam Pomfrey dies, do you think Harry will lose his bones in his right arm, and Ron will 'grow' back his dragon bite, and Hermione her 'rabbit' teeth? No. But as I said, they're just potions..[i'm assuming]

So, yeah, how about a spell? How would that one work? Makes a lot of sense to me!

#73
Feather_of_the_Phenoix

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Well when you use potions it isnt exactly preforming magic. On another note, while I was re-reading book 6, I come to a line that Dobby says that I believe forshadows Dumbledore's death, and purhaps even the reason for his death:

"And if Dobby does it wrong, Dobby will throw himself off the topmost tower, Harry Potter."

-Book 6 pg. 422

All you have to do is replace Dobby with Dumbledore, and it answers a lot of questions:

"And if Dumbledore does it wrong, Dumbledore will throw himself off the topmost tower, Harry Potter."


So what did, Dumbledore do wrong?
"And now, Harry let us step out into the night and pursue that flighty temptress, adventure"

"Harry was left to ponder in silence the depths to which girls would sink to get revenge."

"Greatness inspires envy, envy engenders spite, spite spawns lies."

"Women they are easily upset" - Ron

#74
Roderick

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HAHAHA!!! ^_^ that's such a good theory ... I think that what DD did wrong was not teling Harry the prophecy before his 5th year . . .that 'caused a lot of trouble that leaved DD into faking his dead to escape . . .I think he may probably return in book 7. . . ;)
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#75
shambhavi

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Well dumbledore used the full body bind on harry on that tower that day! I don't think its necessary for the person to die for the spell to be lifted.... In the first book hermione uses the spell on neville... And it doensnt say anywhere that she undid it later...In the fifth book the spell is used in the department of mysteries and i think i remember reading ...That it wears off after a while...
As for dumbledores death...why would anyone be blasted off if the avada kedavra is used on them...In previous events where the curse was used people just dropped dead...like the spider, Cedric..etc!
I don't think snape is dead... he did not break the unbreakable vow!He did his best to protect draco malfoy and comleted the task which was assinged to draco... he was suppose to kill dd for voldermort...and now according to voldermort dd is dead! As for his character....i'm more than sure he is on the good side! :lol:

Edited by shambhavi, 09 March 2006 - 04:07 AM.

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It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live!
For the mature mind, death is but the next great adventure!
The consequences of our actions are always so complicated and so diverse that predicting the future is very difficult.[/colo

#76
aliyah

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wow!i like this topic.you guys have given it a lot of thought.Now, even i am pretty convinced that Snape is on the right side.after all,how can DD be wrong?! and after these theories ,i'm not a fool to contradict them.But i noticed one thing: in part 5 , harry tried to use cruciatus curse on bellatrix but he could n't . this was because(as bellatrix said) you can not use that curse without really wanting to hurt someone(well, thats what i remember).so, maybe Snape did say avada kedavra but he did not mean to actually kill DD.
But now the question arises that how could dumbledore blast into peices? i think that has to be a part of tha plan.maybe DD did that spell in himself or maybe it was not DD who died but only an optical illusion created by them.who knows, let the 7th book arrive!!

Learn to laugh at yourself.But dont laugh too much or ppl wont take you seriously.


#77
Elyssa

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Ok, this is a nursing student with a history of lots of mythology reading, just for a background.

Snape has to "carry out the deed that the DL ordered Draco to perform." If he doesn't, he'll die.

I'm pretty sure DD died when he fell off the tower. I'm not so sure he's going to stay dead, however.

First off, if Muggles can kill someone and bring them back to life, what makes anyone think that Wizards can't? You can shock someone's heart back into normal rhythm after a flatline with paddles, you can do CPR and bring them back that way. There has to be a magickal version of shock-paddles in the wizarding world. Here in muggle-land, you can drain someone's blood from them via IV machines (albeit a very special one), lower their body temperature, do brain/heart surgery in that cryo-state, and then put the blood back in and bring them back to life. They are -dead- while you are operating on them, and they come back.

Second off.....

Dumbledore has been associated with a Phoenix for how many books now? Order of the Phoenix, Fawkes the Phoenix, Phoenix Patronus. Phoenixes have the remarkable ability to DIE and come back to life again. There was a giant poof of white fire from DD's grave. Sounds like Phoenix magick to me :)

#78
dpotter71

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I think I read in an interview JKR gave that DD is most defintely dead. I'll try and find the link and post it.




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